Sunday, February 14, 2010

Whose The Spider?

Has the person you yearn to get attention from on this Valentine's day disappointed you? Or perhaps you have an inkling that he or she will before sundown?

Yeah, been there long ago. Not a good feeling, and depending on the intensity of your feelings, expectations, or hope about your love object, it can be like a door being slammed shut on your love. Since your love represents the best of you, it's a sure sign that you have been rejected. Or lied to. Or played. Or whatevah.

If you're single, take it as an opportunity to walk away from the doorstep at the House of Pain, and find a new place to share the best of you.

If you're married, your marriage may need some work if this 'holiday' is one that both of you have previously valued.

Some people really don't. They see it as an opportunity for the stores to profit, or they aren't given to sentiment, or they simply outgrew the whole concept. Before you pick a fight, find out if this is the case.

Personally, I'd love a little attention today, but I'm not dating a soul. My ideal day today would be to have a boyfriend. He'd be a neat guy, would pick me up by noon. We'd catch a matinee, have a light lunch, and go visit a mutual friend afterwards for laughter and a drink.

This is a different script in my head than when I was younger. I always wanted flowers then, and very few times received them. Yep, sad for all the other times, but true.

There was something weirdly ungenerous about so many of the brothas in my generation back then. A lot of them bought into the myth that there were seven women for every man, and they acted accordingly. They created absolute misery among more women than I can count in the late '70s and '80s.

Now I only want flowers from my kids on Mother's Day. They rarely disappoint me. Crucify me for saying this, but one of my most amazing pot of flowers came from my son a few years ago. Lil' nigga stole them from the front of a grocery store just to make me happy. His sister snitched.

Hell, I didn't know whether to be happy or mad. Still don't.

Today, I think of all the twenty and thirty-something sistahs who have written sad or angry posts in their blogs this year about the crisis in male-female relationships, particularly among the college educated who can't find a committed relationship much less a husband. Many of them think this is something new. It ain't.

Shitty relationships ain't even a crisis, it's a condition, and the bastard child of being a second class citizen. These were common even before I started dating in mid-70s.

I think that when a group of people are grinded down and constantly stressed by the majority group, their self-image is at risk for becoming distorted. Watch this youtube video to see how it begins in early childhood with many kids.

Among my people, being perceived as tough is valued, maybe overvalued among men. It's the kind of tough that has little room for giving gifts as inexpensive as flowers and candy, or risking being played by a gold-digger since they've been played from the day they started grade school. It's the kind of tough that throws up walls without doors into their hearts, leaving no entrance for the real thing if and when it comes along.

And the women, most just want security from real love, and in absence of this, want the outwardly material signs to "prove" some man values them even when all the signs are there that he only values her physical attractiveness and her sex. As the youth fades, so do the number of interested men. Bank on it.

I've said it before, that the majority of my [black] friends, both male and female, from their mid-40s to early 60s, never married. And never will.

I think of the three men I liked the most (and loved as well) I could have married when I was in my 20s. I really didn't know jack about love back then. Thought I did, but I had to become a parent before I learned what love really is. The kind of love that is for better or worse, 'till death do us part, heavily involves sacrifice and going that extra mile even when you are weary.

One would have been a disaster. He did marry someone else eventually, and ended up divorce. We stayed in touch over the years, and in conversation, I saw glimpses of how he'd have been horribly incompatible with me. I was so glad I didn't.

The second one, I'm not sure. I'd try it again, but I broke his heart by leaving him because I felt suffocated. I was too young and briefly dated someone else.

This really crushed him, to the point where he'd die before giving me another chance. Geezus! Over 25 years ago and he could never let that go.

Then there's #3. Now spending a life with him would have been interesting. I abandoned ship on that one too. Again, too young.

And exactly when I was ready to settle down at about the age of 30, no more proposals. With few exceptions, I find this true of most black women. Can't speak for never-married women of other races, but I'll bet it's similar, and if not, that the gap is closing.

Often I think that people get old too soon, especially women in our culture. It's like, just when begin to develop real identity, maturity and wisdom, the kind that can sustain a relationship and be a good parent, we're not perceived as being desirable. Go to any party and watch 40 year old men leap over women their same approximate age to get to 25 year old women.

No, it's not fair, but evolution has no mercy.

I had an amazing conversation last night with my son and his girlfriend (yes, they're back together, poor things... lol), which illustrates this.

Her: "I know he has his problems, but I love him so much!"

Me: I love him too, but I can't stand him most of the time. He's a spider and you're a bug in his web. Hope you escape before it's too late.

Them: (they laugh, neither taking me seriously)

Her: He's wonderful. I want to have lots of his babies one day.

I don't why I said what I said next, but it just popped out.

Me: Could you love him if he had an accident or problem and couldn't have sex anymore?

Her: No! ... I mean... I mean, yes!

Him (laughing good-naturedly): Aww, she told the truth the first time!

Her: No! I don't know why I said that.

Me (lying): He saw the doctor this week. Xavier developed a strange case of measles and can't have kids.

The look in her eyes... panic. They searched mine for the truth, and he said nothing and watched her.

[As an afterthought, maybe I'm the spider...]

She hugged him protectively.

Her: No, you're messing with me! We'll have lots of kids one day!

I laughed; it was sincere. He laughed too, and then he talked about the family they hope to have one day.

For those of you who don't know, they just went through a thing where she thought she was pregnant; either that or lied to me to make excuses for his relapse into drinking and drugging from Thanksgiving through New Years, making my life an absolute hell and guaranteeing that he'll be on his own once all the groundwork has been laid.

Later in my bed, a few things crossed my mind. One is that I should keep my mouth shut. I'm really not into breaking up folks. All I can say in my defense is maybe my subconscious picked up something and tapped into it, resulting in a surprise response from her.

The other is that if she did think she was pregnant until recently, maybe hearing that he was sterile panicked her because it would have meant he wasn't the father. Poor Xavier if this is the case.

However, I don't think this was it, and instead see it as stronger evidence that the whole pregnancy thing was a lie to excuse his dreadful behavior during that period and get him out of the doghouse with me.

But the other piece - her clear, momentary panic over the possibility that he can only shoot blanks - now that's evolution at work.

Men are most sexually attracted to women of child-bearing age. This applies to gays too, whose brains may be hardwired differently, or be reacting to some unknown environmental alteration in utero, during childhood, or media/cultural influences that result in homosexuality. Too young is repulsive (for normal males), or past that age, is unappealing, and way past that age downright repulsive.

Kit in 2035: I'm studying Braille,
so my new guy and I will have more things in common.

What I did last night was actually the second time I ran that experiment.

The first time was intentional. It was with a retarded teenage girl who suddenly become very promiscuous. I asked her if she'd be running around having sex with a bunch of guys if she found out she couldn't get pregnant.

She said no. She was very clear about this. It was a aha! moment.

Her mother then got her a birth control shot that last for three months, and that stopped the sexual acting out. This girl may have been retarded, but she was listening to the drumbeat of her instinct to bear fruit and multiply - as we all do, whether we're conscious of it or not.

This begs the question that has been asked throughout the ages: is love a byproduct of our hormones and a manifestation of our unconscious need to procreate, even among the fertile who doesn't want kids, or any more kids.

My answer is yes and no. We are animals, but unlike them, we are people, capable of laughter, rising above our baser instincts, and being lifetime companions.

But how does one live well with the absence of a companion? I'll give ya hint in a moment...

If the love object you most wish to spend Valentine's Day is no show, would you be as disappointed if you learned he'd been to the doctor's and learned he - or she - was sterile?

If so, whose the spider?

I wonder if my thoughts are too raw, unpleasant or odd, to share. I'm sure some of you will tell me... lol.

Those of you who are in love or have found love may be like those who've had a good job throughout this horrific economic nosedive, and don't really have a feel for what it's like to go without since you haven't had to go without. For the lovers, you are truly fortunate and I am truly happy for you.

For the rest of you, today may be the perfect day to relax, or throw yourself into a hobby, or rekindle a passion for something you loved doing years ago. Plenty of them out there.

Some I've enjoyed are sketching, painting, crocheting, coin or stamp collecting, photography, writing, grooming a new hairdo for my dog, playing chess with a friend, trying a new recipe with a relative, and so forth.

I've been around too long to get sad about not having someone to share Valentine's Day with, but I remember a time when I was much younger and it was hard. It took time and work to evolve.

I don't know why, but I have a feeling that this post will reach someone who is lonely and sad, and perhaps trapped in a web of deceit or self-deceit, or simply not having someone who makes the sparks fly, but who is a good person and worthy of love, especially self-love.


~ Kit


  1. Kit, I typically enjoy your posts, but you really made me pause here with your comment about gay men - it read as being pretty homophobic, and jarred me pretty substantially. Full disclosure: I'm bi, and have fielded my fair share of 'you're just damaged somehow' comments. You probably weren't intending to be insulting with the language you used, but it came across as pretty offensive.

    As for the rest of the post, I disagree with you about evolutionary psychology, too - I think that our desires are shaped by our culture(s), and since pretty much all cultures value fertility and parenting (and a lot of individuals do too), a lot of characteristics that society deems as 'suitable to be a parent' are seen as attractive. However, I firmly reject the idea that there are some 'universal' traits that all people find attractive because of an innate desire to reproduce. There's just too much variation between cultures for that to make sense to me.

    That said, socially constructed concepts of attraction are pretty damn immovable even without biological imperatives behind them, so the effects on dating are the same either way. Thanks for making me think about this stuff again!

  2. I'm in a long-distance thing, so I'd be home alone today, but, luckily I have to go to work in the afternoon (since the Winter Olympics would fall apart without me :P) and keep my mind busy. And he's home, sick with the flu. It will be just a day like any other.
    I know many who simply resent the pressure of Valentine's Day, and all the kitsch. And many who use it to lie to themselves and pretend they have good relationships. I'm in a "whatever" place this year. So, Happy Whatever Day!
    The never-married women I know are either those who didn't settle for whatever they could get, or those who let their youth be swallowed by long, unhealthy relationships (waiting around for a married man, or a toxic bachelor). The women who settle easy, marry easy, they don't even have to be beautiful or charming.
    As someone who has dated mostly older men, I could say that they are attracted to a certain type of younger women: those who are too mature for their age, but not set in their ways yet. I've never seen older men pursuing (other than for a one-night stand) young girls who are really into their youth, because those make them feel old. And they want to feel young. Some actually still are young at heart, and in looks, if they took care of themselves or have great genes. But I would say that most men peaked around the age of 25, and they feed themselves from the memories, readings and feelings of that time even 20 years after (which I find pathetic). Their stories might be exciting at first, but when you heard them the 20th time and realized that they haven't evolved since then... not that exciting anymore, lol. Many don't open a book after college unless they have to for work, don't go to see a play, don't travel (or travel all-inclusive like seniors, because they are afraid to take any chances), don't try anything new, they just stay stuck in the tastes and interests of their youth, instead of actually becoming the worldly, sophisticated men that they try to seem.
    The main criticism I've heard older men address to women their age was not about looks (nowadays youthful looks are much easier to obtain, and women can look and act sexy until much older ages than they used to), but about the pressure to get married fast. They feel that a woman over 35 who wants a family is living with her eyes on the clock, and many men resent that (especially if they already have their own kids from a previous marriage), or fear that she may just be settling for them. I would say that a woman who is past that child-bearing age is more likely to find a good relationship than a woman who is right on the edge, because she no longer gives off that desperate vibe (but she still has to look ok and take care of herself). My mom found the love of her life last year, at 50.
    Gotta go to the stupid work now. Enjoy this day! I'd buy myself flowers if I had time, flowers are the best.

  3. "This applies to gays too, whose brains may be hardwired differently, or be reacting to some unknown environmental damage in utero, during childhood, or media/cultural influences that result in homosexuality."

    Alice, You're absolutely right. Sorry the word 'damaged' was offensive; I should have said 'alteration' which is I hope isn't insensitive to you or others. I'll change this immediately.

    Homo and bisexuality is nothing new to mankind. Some of it is surely due to a genetic difference, like left-handedness.

    I've wondered for a long time, however, why there are so many more people who are gay, and I don't think it's because there are simply more people in the world nor because it's less dangerous to admit one's sexual orientation.

    This being said, it's not difficult to manipulate the hormones of a pregnant woman or animal - and thus, the fetal development at critical times when it is in utero.

    It's done daily by accident - there are many chemicals in the environment, particularly the water, which cause endocrine disruption and other changes in the sexuality of amphibians and fish. Humans are arrogant for not believing or caring that we are part of the ecosystem and eventually will be affected... already have been, given the increase in everything from allergies to autism to ADHD.

    And as you pointed out, sexual mores and tastes are very much influenced by culture.

    Marianne, Peaked at 25? *shivers* How sad, and boring. You're right about that "desperate vibe" to wed that some 30-something women emit. It's as easy to spot as in a guy desperate to get laid. Funny how desperation, one of the most honest human emotions, is never attractive.

  4. **man walking through the church with his finger raised**

    I feel like a guy peeking in the girls locker room *lol*

    See, this is definitely a chick thang. Well, I wonder how many guys write a post about the woes of Valentine's Day?

    But as usual Kit, you packed a big punch in this post. There were so many thought provoking little tid bits. But since I've already beed called an instigator (at another blog today) *smile*... I am going to sit on my hands and enjoy the entertainment.

  5. Damn, that was deep. I'm in the middle of cooking for the man so I don't want to burn dinner but you gave a lot of good food for thought. I'll have to come back later to elaborate.

  6. After a certain age relationships seem to be more like business mergers than anything romantic.
    I long for the days of the chase,
    of being whooped over a girl,
    of being exited to see someone.
    These days - Valentine's Day is just a habit.

  7. LOL, Kit, that pic is hilarious!
    Speaking of desperate, I've just remembered a funny story. Years ago, my cousin was very desperate to get married, obsessed, I could say. A pretty woman, but with a really shitty personality and character, she had managed to scare away some very eligible guys. Finally she started dating this very dull, wimpy guy (but a very nice and intelligent man).
    Less than two months into their relationship, she invited him to spend a mini-vacation at our grandparents' country home. The guy thought they were just going to relax and do some sightseeing... little did he know. She invited the entire family to the house without telling him, put together a nice big dinner, and, in the middle of it, she asked him directly, in front of everybody: "Well, what's it gonna be? Are you marrying me or not?" I have never seen a man look more surprised and embarrased in my life. He mumbled a half-hearted "uhh...yes", and that became their engagement dinner. It was one of those "life beats the movies" moments, totally surreal. They got divorced 3 years later, after she cheated on him. He remarried (happily), has two beautiful kids, and she's still single.

  8. Marianne, That story is precisely why I never married. Although I was ready for the experience of it by age 30, I refused to get serious with someone who isn't in my heart. Had one friend who was a few years ago I'd have loved to love for life, but he is forever single. Ah, such is life...

    John, Business mergers, yuck. Had a girlfriend who did that and regretted it horribly.

    BGIM, Hope you drop in again to share your thoughts.

    Carey, Black Blogland is a small pond, and yeah, I saw where you stirred the pot yesterday. Heh-heh.

  9. Yesterday was quite the day for introspection. I somewhat concluded that as I get older the les romantic I've become. Which is unfair on my part because I used yesterday as somewhat of a timestamp.

    In my younger years I was mister Valentine's Day. But here and now in my 2nd marriage where my wife is admittedly not into all that lovey dovey stuff things have somewhat changed. I wrote about it last night just to get it of my chest.

  10. Hi Trill,

    Another great post of many.

    This especially:

    "This girl may have been retarded, but she was listening to the drumbeat of her instinct to bear fruit and multiply - as we all do, whether we're conscious of it or not."

    How do you explain people who do not want to reproduce, or at least do not want to raise children?

    I knew this from a very very young age and took the precautions necessary to make sure I would never become pregnant. I know other women who did the same thing. Some are very nurturing people, others are not. Very little obvious commonality that I can see.

    And I doubt any of us will be "changing our minds" at this point! Most of us are well past 35.

  11. Whenever I come to your blog I'm never disappointed, you're an excellent writer.

    You put a lot of yourself into this and I respect you for that. Some people may criticize what they see, but you're you and there is no point in sugarcoating what you think.

    I'm 45 and I've been married for more than 20 years. One of the things I've learned in all that time from both my married and single friends is that my single friends wish they were married and my married friends wish they weren't.

    My great grandmother used to say, "wish in one hand, shit in the other and just see which one get's filled up the quickest".

    Excellent post!!!

  12. Reggie, Yeah, I've noticed this too. At some point, folks figure out the grass is just as green on their side of the fence. And thank you.

    SWW, My thoughts re: your question is a little bit down from where you quoted.

    Rippa, I just checked out your post. It was amazing in the range of emotions and thoughts you covered. Loved it. You say you may feel less romantic these days, but the passion is still clearly there.

  13. Kit thank you for this post. I am a 25 year old African-American woman seeking to get married. I recently split with my boyfriend and I have been having a bit of a rough time.

    I have told my mother I would like to be married by the time I am 30. Her answer, "Don't rush! You have plenty of time." I feel like she things I picked that number out of thin air.

    I didn't: As a woman reaches and surpasses 30, the likelihood of her getting married diminishes. I know that being in my peak child bearing years is an important asset on the dating-marriage-and-mating market. Moreover, men are visual creatures and I know that as I start to age my looks will suffer.

    Do women get married after 30? Yes. But to whom? As women age the type of man they marry also tends to age. And may have different types of responsibilities. I am not interested in marrying a man who has been divorced or had children.

    I feel like I am trying to get mine while the getting is good, without settling. I feel like I have a few more years and then I may have to re-evaluate what "settling" even means. Just trying to "keep it real."

  14. @ Kit - Yeah... "Yuck"
    But many women walk into my home and start to imagine where their furniture could go, which cars we could keep, and ask how much time I plan on spending volunteering after we'd been together for a while.
    I miss the days of dating someone just because I liked them, not because they were seen as an asset or a liability.

  15. Kit - thanks for addressing that! I agree that environmental factors def. affect us in ways that we don't tend to realize until WAY after the fact.

    However, I put a lot of stock into the explanation that more people are out now because it's safer to be out, whereas the % of queer folk in the population has remained steady over time. The pressure to hide my orientation was stifling, and I'm from a liberal family and came out in the 90's. Add in the fact that a lot of people didn't marry before the 1900s (up to 50% in the US), and there's a lot of room for people who weren't out, but who weren't straight, either.

    As for the main part of your post, I think that a lot of relationships would've benefitted from seriously considering the "what if he/she is sterile" question. Interesting think to think about as part of a relationship checklist, to be sure!

  16. Lauren, Your comment sparked some thoughts that I will share with all of you soon. I started a post the other day to respond to part of your question, but my life got a bit a crazy so haven't finished it yet. Sit tight.

    John, See my response to Lauren.

    Alice, I read in a number of books back in social work school that the marriage rates were above 90% for blacks and whites in America from the late 1800s thru the 1950s, and this mirrored all the old folks I knew and their parents and grandparents. Religion was central, divorce was a stigma, and of course, many gays and lesbians used marriage as a cover. I did a quick google for Census reports for that time period but found only current trends.

    Also, I find that the importance of fertility among straights peaks among teens and adults in their 20s, when attached to "would you marry someone who couldn't have kids?", but diminishes with age... because by that time, a lot of folks have kids. Despite this and not wanting more or any, people tend to be sexually attracted to women who look fertile and men who look virile, and I see this constantly even among gays. For example, the sick, the older crowd, the handicapped, the grossly unattractive, generally don't get much play unless their personalities and/or talents shine.

  17. Hello Kit,

    I am a long time lurker. I really enjoy your blog as it is very thought provoking and I like to think. I also would like to compliment you on your writing.

    I believe that people with goals and/or expectations, usually achieve them. The issue I see is that many people live life day to day with no thought for tomorrow, therefore they don't have any goals/expectations. They just wake up one day and wonder how they got to the place/situation that they find themselves in. However, I do believe that biology does play a role in mate selection, and the biological truth is that female fertility begins an accelerating decline around age 30.

    I have been reading a lot about the plight of college educated black women who find themselves without a significant other. I wonder if part of the reason is because they don't expect to have a significant other, or if they never made it a goal.

    Having a goal or expectation is not a sign of being desperate. Rather goals and expectations orient how you go about your everyday life in order to maximize your probability for achieving your goals and realizing your expectations. I always expected to be married and have a family and I was confident that it would happen.

    For example, my eldest child is in college. She never thought about significant others, but I did, so I carefully checked gender ratios at each college she showed an interest in and shared them with her. I explained to her that many people meet their life partner at college and that it would be less likely to meet a life partner on a campus with a skewed female/male ratio than on one where the numbers are roughly equal.

    My guess is that many young women don't think of this when choosing a college. Is this the most important issue? No, it is not. But the truth is most reputable colleges have a variety of good academic programs, so often, when choosing a college, other factors come into play, such as location, and yes, gender ratio.

    I am a college educated black woman who didn't date much in HS, as I went to a vocational school that was 85% female, with many of the few males there being gay. So slim pickings at my school. I didn't pay close attention to gender ratios when I was applying to college, but I knew that I wanted to attend a coed school.

    I dated a lot in college, but I was always a "good" girl and received several marriage proposals, and was introduced to the parents, families of my dates.

    I did end up marrying someone I met in college, we actually married my senior year, we've been married well over 20 years and our marriage is strong and loving. I still believe that my husband is the best husband ever, and he constantly shows me in words and actions that I mean the world to him.

    A lot of what we think of as attractive are simply markers for good health and fertility, so yes, people who appear unhealthy or infertile will have a harder time attracting a mate, because even people who are unhealthy or infertile are hardwired to seek out those who are not.

    The fact is there are many educated black women in stable, loving relationships with men. Sometimes it's good to look at those women to see how they achieved their goal of being in such a relationship.

    Thanks for keeping it real Kit.


  18. Anonymous/Elle, Your pragmatic approach and insights are a breath of fresh, but old school) air. It reminded me of something I had forgotten.

    Were you around or remember when someone, maybe it was in a movie, introduced the idea that college women were only seeking a "Mrs." degree? That they only wanted to be Mrs. X, Y, or Z, and not for a career?

    That criticism, although accurate for many young women, was also covertly hostile toward the needs of women on so many levels, and worse, it gave ammunition to college men who only wanted convenient sex. I had totally forgotten about this, but actually had one guy accuse me of this for saying no to sex as a way to "prove" I wasn't in college to find a husband.

    This criticism is also commonly given for young women who start going to church.

    That criticism is covertly hostile toward women; it's like they're not supposed to have two goals, and if they do, then they're somehow a being a hypocrite and just playing men. It's both evil and silly since there is nothing wrong with looking for love in a place where you hope to find a quality man.

    Thank you for sharing. I might repeat some of this in a future post.

  19. Kit and Elle,

    I feel as if there is a lot of "old school" advice going around regarding young black women and their singlehood. I think most of it is good. I work hard at sticking to it as most of it fits with my personality and values anyway.

    However, I have 2 questions for both of you if you would be so kind as to answer: (1) How do you effectively implement old school advice as a 21-25 year old woman when many of your male peers seem determined to remain single and uncommitted until they are at least 35? Kit this meshes with your comments about college-aged men only wanting sex. This behavior, however, extends DRAMATICALLY past the age of 21. (2) How is this further complicated by women who will settle for less and will tolerate these males behaviors?

    I feel that some males do not want to get married, ever. And that a good portion of those who do, do not want to do so until they are at least 35 years of age. Is the solution for me as a 25 year old to start dating men between the ages of 35 and 40?

    I have a strong desire to get married and achieve my goal of finishing Ph.D. I expect both of these things. However, everyone seems to be attempting to drill into my head its only reasonable to look forward to the later and that the former is like wishing on a star. This attitude is very discouraging in terms of BOTH goals because it makes it seem as if I am supposed to sacrifice career for love, marriage, and children, and then "build a bridge and get over it."

  20. Kit,
    Yes, I remember that being thrown about when I was in college. I don't know where it originated, but the women in my college, Human Ecology, (there were seven colleges/schools at the university I attended) were especially branded by others on campus as simply being there to obtain their MRS degree. And yes, I believe it was covertly hostile.


    I applaud you for holding fast to your values and personality, do not sacrifice either for a man. Be confident that their is a man out there who will be a true partner to you and will share your values and complement your personality. I am also confident that it's possible to achieve your educational goals and have the family you desire.

    In response to your questions, and please be advised that my responses are based on my own experience and what I have observed happening around me. OK, now that I have gotten the "disclaimer" out of the way, here are my responses:

    (1) How do you effectively implement old school advice as a 21-25 year old woman when many of your male peers seem determined to remain single and uncommitted until they are at least 35?

    Most men love sex and will seek it out at every opportunity. If women are out there offering sex, many men, won't say no. However most men in serious relationships will be faithful. The key question is: how do you get into the serious relationship? My advice is to hold off on the sex, get to know the person, let them get to know you, and, until you are in a committed relationship, date other guys. Don't cut yourself off from meeting other people until you are in a serious relationship AND don't have sex with any of them either.

    When you do finally have sex, make sure that the commitment is real. Only have sex (and at this point what we're really talking about is making love) with someone who is committed to you and to whom you are committed, and faithfulness should be expected from both parties. This point may not come for some people until the marriage vows are said, and from my viewpoint, there's nothing wrong with that.

    (2) How is this further complicated by women who will settle for less and will tolerate these males behaviors?

    This type of behavior actually makes it easier for you, a women of quality, because it gives you a way to differentiate yourself. Do not feel that other women are getting a leg up, so to speak, by giving their bodies freely. Most men are more intrigued by the woman who they have to work hard to be with, and are skeptical of women who they feel are easy. The easier women, as a result, are rarely seen as wife or girlfriend material, just a side piece.

    Men are men, but they are still human. They do want to get married and have a family, and they will do so if/when they meet someone with whom they want to get married to, usually, this is not the side piece.


  21. Lauren, I almost have the post finished that I will share some of my views on the questions you posed. I'll put it up Friday, b/c earlier today I did a very serious post that has a part 2 for Tuesday.

    Elle, Thanks for joining this discussion and sharing your ideas. If you ever start a blog, let me know and I'll add it. You too, Lauren. You both write well and have much to say, as well as ask the kind of questions many women ponder about.


Hi, this is Kit.

I haven't posted since summer 2010, and comment moderation has been on for a very long time.

My old blogger friends (you know who you are) are welcome to email me.

I can be reached at: